Clemens just reached Pete Rose level

First major league game I saw in person was the Blue Jays and Braves in Atlanta. Maddux pitched against the "Misrememberer". We went to a sports restaurant in our hotel following the game. This older gentleman came up to us and was telling us how the visiting teams always stayed there and would sometimes come into the restaurant after a game. About 20 minutes later, Delgado came in with his wife. Right after, Canseco came in with a young (20ish maybe) lady. He was only 5 feet from us, and we heard him tell his lady friend that they would be leaving when "Rog" got there. Well "Rog" arrived a few minutes later, with a young blonde (20ish also). They were all decked out, and left together. The following weekend, Rog was on TV saying how much his family meant to him. I haven't liked the sob since.

The older guy I was talking about, walked his young grandson over and he asked Canseco for his autograph and Canseco cussed him out. Not the old man, the kid. They wanted NO part of anyone in the place.

On a lighter note, as we were leaving we walked past Delgado's table and he acknowledged us, introduced himself and his wife and shook hands with us. That was nice to see after the garbage from the other 2.

I hadn't given that trip much thought until this entire mess got started. Now it just makes a feller wonder.

next in line - Mrs. John Daly

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8094080

I really hope his entire career goes down. The man is a fraud to me, there is no way he should be mentioned with other pitchers in his era such as Smoltz, Maddux, Glavine, Schilling, Johnson, etc.

why, because of accusations?...nothing has been proven with him, just abunch of accusations which holds nothing with me....just another woman trying to make something up to help her career...just abuch of B S, hes one of the greatest pitchers to play the game and that has nothing to do with what he does in his own time....

Roids, Roids, Roids. Forget Roger, he's a joke. If you can't see that your blind.

IMO roids or not he still one of the greatest pitchers in MLB history.

But he cheated to achieve it.

Clemens is trash.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But he cheated to achieve it. </div></div>

Not saying what he did was right but he only cheated if he used a product banned by baseball (Since Baseball had no Steriod Policy I DO NOT see how he cheated)

I'm with ya counts....if it's not against the rules, it's not cheating. That has been my point with Bonds as well. When a law is passed making an act criminal, they don't go back and try to arrest everyone that had done said act in the past 25 years. That is basically the equivilent of what baseball id trying to do with the "steriod investigation" aka WITCH HUNT. Roger didn't cheat, Barry didn't cheat, nor did anyone else that used substances that weren't banned by baseball at the time the athlete was using it.

good points lads, while i agree that he nor bonds technically "cheated"....i still believe clemens is trash...lol

I don't know anything about his private life, nor do I want to. He was the greatest pitcher of the past 25 years tho...

all you people defending clemens


did you defend barry with the same zest?


if not, then you are a hypocrite


smoltz>clemens

Who cares if baseball had rules against it?? It was ILLEGAL so therefore both of them are garbage.

And here I was thinking the manufacturering of, and use of steroids were against the law (unless produced by a pharmacy, and legal by prescription)? I guess breaking the law isn't cheating though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1inStripes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And here I was thinking the manufacturering of, and use of steroids were against the law (unless produced by a pharmacy, and legal by prescription)? I guess breaking the law isn't cheating though. </div></div>


No it is not cheating and IMHO no differant than Strawberry's drug problems (Or if you look at the NFL Farves or LT (Lawarence Taylors) Drug issues and I do not see anyone going around saying that they cheated)


I feel the same about Bonds Drug wise.

And while I think baseball has been to tough on Pete Rose at lest Gambeling WAS against baseball rules before he did it

Cocaine does not build muscles like DECA. Not the best two to compare.

IMO if its against the law, its against the rules of any athletic event.

Breaking the law is not cheating. If so and so gets arrested for disorderly conduct, that's breaking the law...is it cheating. NO. If what your doing isn't against the rules of the game, it doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal..it still isn't cheating.

Gosh...are we gonna have to sort thru the spitters and re-write the record book ,too?

How the heck are you going to be arrested for disorderly conduct during a game?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Monkeyhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cocaine does not build muscles like DECA. Not the best two to compare. </div></div>


Agree BUT the arguement was made that it was cheating becouse it was an illeagle substance even if it was not banned by MLB

We are talking about stuff that gives you a competitive edge, but heck I say ban them too for getting caught using that stuff I don't have a problem with it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But he cheated to achieve it. </div></div>


If he took em than hes just a juiced pitcher pitching against juiced hitters...evens the playing field

Not everyone is on the juice.

Id say there is tons more than we think but just havent got caugght

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1inStripes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How the heck are you going to be arrested for disorderly conduct during a game? </div></div>
Spitters, in Rose's day were SPITBALL throwers [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]...sorry.

I won't disagree abuot there being a bunch that have not been caught. I am saying you can't say all of them have juiced. If so then we would have to include Smoltz, Glavin, Maddux, Sandberg, Murphy, and many others.

Maybe one or two of them have...its not impossible....i mean we wouldnt have known about if if some guy wouldnt have said anything...how do we know there wont be any more mcnamees to come forward? btw i know theres a lot of evidence pointing to clemens but i just dont believe a guy like mcnamee, i mean he could be tellling the truth here but he's lied so much...i just think he wants that 15 min of fame

I don't think it is so much the fame as it is the anal pounding he would recieve in the pokey.

very true

[quote=raider13]i just dont believe a guy like mcnamee, i mean he could be tellling the truth here but he's lied so much..quote]

Do you know for sure that he has lied?

just going by what was all over the news about him...I mean the biggest problem he has had is his credibility...that just isnt an issue for no reason...so obviously he has been caught lying alot

Clemens is a bum, the guy was gonna sit back and let Andy Pettite take the fall and deny everything. Look at Clemens and Bonds, the pitcher and the hitter that have beaten the odds and stayed on top of their game longer than most are capable. Coincidence? I think not.

But you can't name one thing that you know for sure he is lieing about r13. Same with Clemens for that matter, but McNamee has come out looking a lot more truthful at this point.

Anytime you are in this situation your credibility is going to be shot down by the defendents lawyers, especially when they are a lot higher priced, unless you have video evidence that completely proves it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1inStripes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are talking about stuff that gives you a competitive edge, but heck I say ban them too for getting caught using that stuff I don't have a problem with it. </div></div>


There is ALOT of stuff that can give you a competitive advantage and so long as baseball had not banned that meathod I do not see how it could be considered cheating (Now that baseball has banned it I agree it would NOW be cheating)

Like I said, ban them for that crap too if it is illegal by law.

Ban them for something they did several years ago but are not doing now?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1inStripes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But you can't name one thing that you know for sure he is lieing about r13. Same with Clemens for that matter, but McNamee has come out looking a lot more truthful at this point.

Anytime you are in this situation your credibility is going to be shot down by the defendents lawyers, especially when they are a lot higher priced, unless you have video evidence that completely proves it. </div></div>


I knwo i cant and like you said cant either with Clemens...but mcnamee may very well be telling the truth...i guess i just dont want to believe it because he's my fav pitcher of all time lol...but one of them is lying

Ban any records, ban any HOF opportunity. Why not? They cheated. People set in jail for years after their crimes, not just the day they get caught.